Brand new genealogists most of the consider this significant you to Nicholas’ wife Clementia was integrated right here once the, under regular issues, she’d not said. Whenever Susanna during the certain later on time obtained out to a special guardian, the fresh partner of these guardian wasn’t stated.
This would indicate that King John spent some time truth be told there and you may the potential for an enthusiastic amorous liaison that have Clementia can be acquired
Here are some here is an idea cutting-edge by the specific eminent genealogists, but it is reasonable to declare that the fresh new results are hotly competitive!
That it principle leads to a wonderful and interested ‘twist’ about facts away from Joanna, which may appeal fans from HBD!
On top, there would be nothing to recommend any partnership between the hostage, Susanna from Wales and Clementia, spouse regarding Nicholas de- Verdun. But not, sensation of specific genealogists with international hostages, such as youths, could have been that they was indeed have a tendency to set which have family members, if any was readily available.
Jumping forward to 1236, there’s an admission about Tewkesbury annals which applies to Joanna’s mom due to the fact “King Clemencie!” It checks out to some extent:
Now, we know the mommy off Joanna try called Clementia (Clemence?
In this case the monk try obviously indulging for the gothic legalism. Ahead of their own passing, Joanna was actually legitimised from the Pope. On the basis of one legitimisation, the newest Tewksbury monk obviously got they abreast of himself to raise Joanna’s mother into the updates from King, as if their mother was Queen John’s wife! It is true however, you to King John and you may Clementia was indeed never ever hitched. By speaking about Joanna’s mother since the “Queen” Clementia, new monk who recorded Joanna’s death try exhibiting their extreme regard to possess Joanna, but not wanting to alter the true items.
When it comes to name out of Clementia de- Verdun, Paget means that she was the brand new daughter away from Roger de Dauntsey, away from Wiltshire. One genealogist considers they extreme one to Clementia hailed out of Wiltshire because the he has noticed that King John had an effective accessory so you can you to definitely condition, it being the family away from their most trusted allies, the fresh new Longespee, ilies and you may Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists are finding that the label ‘Clementia’ are very uncommon certainly one of English noblewomen of this months. In one dining table of ladies’ labels that has been obtained, there had been just a couple of situations of the term “Clementia” away from a maximum of 1407 feamales in the new shot! The truth that some body titled Clementia would-be with the treffit Sri Lanka lady Susanna is recognized as extreme.
Therefore! The data are suggestive, but not definitive, you to inside 1228, Susanna, as an effective hostage, got off to the brand new proper care of her maternal granny, today partner away from Nicholas de Verdun!!
The newest Scottish genealogists of one’s MacDuffs’ hold that Susanna ferch Llywelyn came into this world 1214 when you look at the Gwynnedd, Wales and died c. 1259 inside the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She married Malcolm MacDuff, Earl of Fife when you look at the 1230 and had a couple people: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl regarding Fife, produced 1245, passed away 1270 and you can MacDuff MacDuff born 1247.
Obviously, there are stop arguments to all this supposition! King John got of many mistresses and perhaps as much as 7 illegitimate pupils. Mom from Joanna would have been produced circa 1172 and you may marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself was created circa 1191 (14 years old during their particular wedding to help you Llywelyn). Rohese, the brand new recognized genuine daughter out of Nicholas de- Verdun and his spouse Clementia was born circa 1210-1213. If Clementia is actually the caretaker out-of Joanna, she would have been in their own late 30’s, very early 40’s when having a baby in order to Rohese! Perhaps not hopeless, specific say, but not likely.